Julie I have read your post and am in 100 percent agreement with your assessment. If anything, you didnt go far enough, but you were 100% correct. So, if someone in my church sinned against me, then Id follow those steps rather than publicly rebuke her. If you believe that women can and/or should be pastors, I ask you to flip your method of interpreting the Word. Ministry today might be as complex as its ever been in the history of the world. And I am so happy that you found a church that digs into the meat of the Word. Progressive Christianity: https://thesetapartwalk.com/progressive-christianity-not-all-progress-is-good/ If anything, the scripture additions they use in their program only make it harder for the addict. Church growth can be through the roof. Looking at your list, though, Id say most of what you listed is unbiblical. Youre demanding silence from me with regard to a false teacher, but then you think its totally appropriate to call me names and make accusations because you dont like what I said. I believe that without the salvation he granted me at 26 years old, Id be a another victim of alcoholism. Even when I was there, I wasnt really there. You dont have to agree, but Google it and youll find plenty of Bible scholars who would agree with me. Usually, theyre way off base, and many end up in the trash because they are just personal insults directed at me. Im assuming you are thinking about Matthew 18:15-17 about handling disputes. Created by the team that produces CareLeader.org, GriefShare features many of the experts who contribute to the CareLeader website. Visit GriefShare.org/start and see more reasons why thousands of churches use GriefShare. Tell us about your role at Saddleback Church. Rather, I am asking people to reconsider Rick Warren and Saddleback. I really do appreciate hearing from people. God made you a hammer, He made me a screw driver, He made Rick Warren a Saw. Go back to your white washed sepulcher where you and your associates are most comfortable. People dont have time to spend four Tuesday nights training for a volunteer position. At Saddleback, we did Just In Time training, giving people just enough to get started. When theres incongruence, its best to side with God. Whether or not individuals who are both employed by SBC agencies or serve as trustees of those entities and agencies seized upon the opportunity of Rick Warrens retirement to seek and pursue the removal of Saddleback from fellowship, I dont know. Its an addictions ministry Julie, do you want people to overcome addiction or not? This demonstrates a complete ignorance of who God is. I was 26 years old, and I am the first born-again person in my family. Wow is a good word for your comment. I am warning believers of a false teacher. And when a person knows doctrine, then that person can identify when someone is teaching something inconsistent with Gods Word. Im not going to do a whole post about why female pastors are not biblical. His battles with the church arent over, How Palm Springs ran out Black and Latino families to build a fantasy for rich, white people, 17 SoCal hiking trails that are blooming with wildflowers (but probably not for long! Although we do not see eye to eye on this topic, I do pray you have many blessings in the years to come. . Pastor Warren is a very public figure with a huge influence, and he falls under the mark and avoid category (Romans 16:17-18). Have people been saved at Saddleback? God bless! In my tiny corner of the internet, I am sharing concerns about a hugely popular pastor. What about being a Saint, and Living as a Hermit? Thank you so much for doing what you do. However, in its proper context we discover this is bad advice given by one of Jobs friends. So does verse 13 that gives the reason. You sound more like a Rick Warren super fan than a Christian concerned about sound biblical teaching. Because after the Orange County megachurch ordained three women as associate pastors, it named Stacie Wood, wife of the churchs senior pastor, Andy Wood, a teaching pastor. For starters, in a previous post I wrote called Your Church Just Might Be A Social Club, I discussed the results of someone listening to 18 hours of sermons at several of the biggest churches in the U.S., Saddleback being one of them. A woman wrestling with depression. Warren started the Southern California church in 1980 after graduating. The webpage has resources for discipleship and ways to plug into a Saddleback church. PS.. People are not perfect nor are churches. Rather, filter your worldview and beliefs through the truth of His Word. I ran across your site while continuing my own research of CR. (Again, theres more on the My Testimony page.). They have no idea that Warren promotes an ecumenical union with other religions in the world. With its main campus in Lake Forest, Saddleback Church has grown to 14 locations in Southern California, with an average weekly attendance of 30,000, and more than 7,000 small groups meeting in . Julie, Thank you for posting this and calling this out. Bill Hybels, senior pastor of Willow Creek Community Church, said that in ministry youve got to be able to discern the difference between good hard and destructive hard. Good hard is healthy sacrifice. 3. I was concerned with the beliefs section of the site, but Saddleback presents itself as quite doctrinally sound. Even if Saddleback in the end is OK with disfellowship and wants to move on, I hope they will appeal it if for no other reason than to allow their brothers and sisters in Christ, who do not want to see this happen to other churches, to debate this on the floor of the annual convention in an orderly process governed by Roberts Rules of Order. God bless. Get a Bible There it is! Challies gives an example of Warren using Job 22:21, Acquaint now thyself with him, and be at peace: thereby good shall come unto thee. Warren uses this verse in a positive way in his book. So, how has the church emphasis failed the gospel? Church membership is suggested but not insisted upon. Thanks for having an open mind and not assuming I am coming at things with bad intentions. In Matthew 22:39 Jesus tells those listening to love their neighbors as they love themselves. He is good (James 1:17), gracious (Psalm 145:17), holy (Isaiah 6:3), immutable (Psalm 33:11), loving (1 John 4:8), merciful (Titus 3:5), and just (Romans 1:32). Titus 1:6 and 1 Timothy 3:2 tell us elders should have one *wife* (a male exclusive)and Titus 1:9 and 1 Timothy 3:2 tell us pastors should be apt to teach. None of the churches gave a clear gospel presentation. Kudos to you! I find that it doesnt matter whether youre in a big church or a small church, a rural church or an urban church, you can burn out no matter what your situation. How long have you been saved? 1. I dont give my churchs name out because it feels like it crosses a personal line. What about the Rosary? Deborah was the judgea political leaderover Israel in Judges 4. He was buried and resurrected 3 days later, defeating death and offering us the free gift of salvation. The pastor doesnt have all the gifts. You make theology your God and replace Grace with your endless list of grievances. Regardless, most addicts in recovery realize they need god to stay in recovery and a new journey with the lord begins. Lance Witt is the founder of Replenish ministries and is often referred to as a pastors pastor. First, congratulations on your recovery. Snide comments, sarcasm & prideful nit picking spread nothing but negativity. I will be praying for you. I was responsible, and it was my job, with the Holy Spirits help, to lead myself well. The book makes no mention of sin, the need for a Savior, Jesus life, His death at the cross, or the empty tomb. A few years ago it was Calvinism. On the other hand, you cant skip fundamentals like the seriousness of sin, Hell, and repentance and still be sharing the whole gospel. No one is perfect. Lance and his wife, Connie, have been married thirty-eight years and have two married children and four beautiful granddaughters. The gospel is that were all sinners and are going to Hell, Jesus came to Earth as man and God to live a sinless life and He took the punishment for our sins on the cross. As I said, earlier, the Southern Baptist Convention (SBC) has given this church carte blanche to do whatever suits Warren. We may not only be losing Saddleback Church and Rick Warren. Saddleback ordained three women on May 6, 2021. All that said, women can teach anyone in many circumstances, and I agree the Bible gives multiple examples of God using women for great things. There are many verses that teach caution, 1 John 4:1; 2 John 1: 7-11; Romans 16:17; and 1 Timothy 6: 3-5 to name a few. Im just not comfortable with it. What Christ is Warren suggesting people accept? Catholicism: https://thesetapartwalk.com/catholicism-is-not-biblical-christianity/ Those that fail just really arent ready to quit, and those that actually realize from rock bottom a god in Heaven will help, always can quit. Every time I receive a comment on this post, I close my eyes and click on it with hesitancy. Thanks. CR also encourages participants to improve their self-esteem and self-image. Nobody else was responsible. Im a pastors wife and mother to 5 children. Its amazing how that inability to only think of ourselves can be changed with the power of salvation. Im rooting for him. Women can use avenues such as serving in church and political appointments to accomplish this charge. If you dont, in the end youre not going to do much good for your church or ministry if you burn out. He is telling them it is the cleanliness of the inner man that matters. Im not sure if you understand what straining gnats and swallowing camels means. There is nothing I have said that has been against the Lord. Now, some Southern Baptists fear an ultraconservative ideological wing of the organization is imposing its own beliefs and values on other churches. ), but its presented in a safe, child-like way. My concerns about Rick Warren and Saddleback are not about mistakes, though. As a recovered alcoholic (decades ago) I can assure you that the addict HAS to put there recovery as the sole purpose of the program. June 8, 2021 5 AM PT Rick Warren, the founder of a sprawling megachurch, a bestselling author and one of the most influential figures in American evangelicalism, is retiring as lead pastor of. You made a good point. They dont need to know about hell; they live there and in addiction they are prevented from thinking of anything but them selves that is what addiction is. Im not sure people even know them when they see them. Its not about salvation or the gospel or Jesus, its about admitting they are powerless, and asking God to help. Thats my experience, at least. Theres a button to push for that, and it will zip you over to a video of Rick Warren seemingly wrapping up a message. Warrens church not only committed this act, but they publicly celebrated it. It seems like we will have to agree to disagree. We equip and inspire pastors and senior church leaders to provide strategic, real-world pastoral care, by delivering practical, biblically based encouragement and insights that have application for preaching, counseling, visitation, lay leader training, and outreach planning. Saddleback changes the SBC. He has limited time, limited focus, limited boundaries. (Dont count on the SBC to do anything, though, theyve silently been allowing female preaching for years.). And what the convention is now being forced to answer is whether or not we will pass out straitjackets to our churches rather than life jackets to the communities around us in need of hope.. Its beautiful, and Rick Warren often leaves this out a lot. All of those things together are a recipe for burnout for a lot of leaders and pastors. The short answers are as follows: I was saved on May 3, 2009.